tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5950664143576637249.post2192973197297371558..comments2024-03-22T18:01:20.065-05:00Comments on Geezer with a Grudge: Shaft, Chain, or Belt?T.W. Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04078254371483458356noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5950664143576637249.post-83957447481092922762012-08-29T10:08:58.682-05:002012-08-29T10:08:58.682-05:00Ian,
It's a "like" with minimal exp...Ian,<br /><br />It's a "like" with minimal experience, unlike you. Now that you describe your experience, I can imagine I might think the Hawk is "too small" for my age-disabled lowered flexibility. Knees, especially. A friend had a Hawk NT650 back in the 90's and I loved riding his bike. He did absolutely no maintenance, so I had no opportunity to work on the bike with him. T.W. Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078254371483458356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5950664143576637249.post-76125004377932621052012-08-29T06:43:59.003-05:002012-08-29T06:43:59.003-05:00Hi Thomas,
You say you like the Honda Hawk. On t...Hi Thomas,<br /><br />You say you like the Honda Hawk. On this side of the pond they came in two capacities, 600 & 650cc. I ran an NTV600 some years ago for 94,000 miles. It was without doubt the most reliable bike I have ever owned, but it was physically small, and thus uncomfortable on high mileage days. I got into shaft drives while working as a motorcycle courier in the bad old days when "the troubles" were still part of everyday life here in Northern Ireland. Finding a way through Belfast when the bombs were going off was an interesting experience!<br /><br />The only problem with the NTV's shaft was the pathetic plastic cover over the wheel retaining nut. It let dirt through and once in there was very difficult to clean out without pushing it further into the oil seal that protected the bevel. I rebuilt the bevel once after that seal failed and from then on used silicone sealant on the plastic cover. There were no more problems.<br /><br />IanCashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02084774009685284306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5950664143576637249.post-8776849034417660772012-08-28T22:02:09.916-05:002012-08-28T22:02:09.916-05:00Now that is news to me and one of the questions I ...Now that is news to me and one of the questions I was asking. I didn't know the F800S was belt drive and I wouldn't have guessed the belt could be that expensive. T.W. Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078254371483458356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5950664143576637249.post-16749814166376068172012-08-28T17:46:07.940-05:002012-08-28T17:46:07.940-05:00I've had all three systems. Tend not to like...I've had all three systems. Tend not to like the shaft drives. Heavy and complex, still needs maintenance, and could be pricey to fix.<br /><br />Have a belt on my BMW F800S, an 85 HP, mid 400 pound street biike. I live down a long gravel driveway, but no issues with stones. It is well shielded. I like it, but with one major exception. It only lasted 24,000 miles, and it costs $450. No aftermarket substitute. <br /><br />Have a chain on Ninja 250. No issues, but a bit messy. And yes, I did change the gearing on the Ninja for my highway commute, which made me appreciate the chain and sprocket arrangement. Prescottnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5950664143576637249.post-86388121806747932112012-08-28T10:53:38.120-05:002012-08-28T10:53:38.120-05:00Andy,
I do not disagree with anything you've ...Andy,<br /><br />I do not disagree with anything you've said. Chains are definitely stronger than belts and more durable. Because I have never seen a dirt road I couldn't love, "more durable" is a big deal with me. <br /><br />There are lots of things to like about drive shaft systems, maintenance in the field and cost are not among them. Weight is an issue, too, for both belts and drive shaft systems. Unless the torque is minimal, the pulley size becomes a big issue and there goes any weight advantage the belt might offer.<br /><br />My WR250X is my most recent experience with a slipping chain. The previous owner had done a poor job of maintaining the chain and as the failing chain stretched it slipped under hard, low-gear throttle applications. Adjusting the chain helped for a bit, but not for more than 500 miles. We're talking a seriously long-travel rear suspension there, something a belt wouldn't cope with at all. T.W. Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078254371483458356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5950664143576637249.post-89838505922391316092012-08-28T10:05:41.835-05:002012-08-28T10:05:41.835-05:00I don't have definitive answers, but like you ...I don't have definitive answers, but like you I've listened to or read a lot of arguments. Here's what I've taken away:<br /><br />1) If any of the three types was universally superior, it would have beat out the others except for niche markets. None of them has, so clearly none of them is universally better.<br /><br />2) Which one is better in any application depends on the application. Belts are good if you only ride on the street and want "I'm going to take it to the shop for a tune up every N-thousand miles" maintenance, and don't mind N being fairly small. Drive shafts are good if you have the same view, but want a larger N and ride in the rain. Chains are good if you're not sure what conditions you'll be driving in, and want to be able to make repairs easily on your own.<br /><br />3) In any case where there are multiple options under discussion, there will be someone for each option who argues that that option is always best. Those people will, almost universally, be wrong. (There are, of course, exceptions. Sometimes one option really IS clearly the best. But usually....)<br /><br />That said, I like chain drives because they appear to be more reliable than belts (I have yet to see a slipping chain!) and easier to inspect than shafts.Andy Mckenziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381746284574559808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5950664143576637249.post-5454893003175903772012-08-27T22:42:22.385-05:002012-08-27T22:42:22.385-05:00If the argument is "I hate maintenance" ...If the argument is "I hate maintenance" and that's the only criteria for picking a bike, Sev is probably the winner with drive shafts. I'm unconvinced that the price, weight, complexity, fragility, and loss of balance is worth that advantage. Of course, I'm not in the market for a $14k, 600 pound, liter-or-larger motorcycle. Never have been, never will be. I have a hard time justifying my 650 V-Strom for most of my motorcycling. <br /><br />I think the argument for belts is a lot shakier. They only tolerate moderate power and very little material interference without failure. Someday, maybe. We're still waiting for a powerful, modern motorcycle that takes a chance on belt drives. Victory and Hardly don't count as either powerful or modern.T.W. Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078254371483458356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5950664143576637249.post-81297255272219389032012-08-27T18:57:09.547-05:002012-08-27T18:57:09.547-05:00Also cam belts are on constant center distance, wh...Also cam belts are on constant center distance, which rear wheel drive never is!<br /> <br />Naturally marketing has to present everything as no-maintenance (like US democracy).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5950664143576637249.post-48294703077116238362012-08-27T18:16:52.472-05:002012-08-27T18:16:52.472-05:00Back when Butler & Smith, formerly the BMW mot...Back when Butler & Smith, formerly the BMW motorcycle importers, had a race team briefly in the US, they carried numerous already-set-up rear gearsets whose contact patterns had been carefully adjusted. When they needed a ratio change (as racing does) they switched out the whole thing. And of course the gears are quite heavy.<br /> <br />But for someone working on another New-York-to-Patagonia-by-motorcycle article, shaft drive would seem to have advantages. Or any kind of utility riding.<br /> <br />Yes, I suspect the Har-Davs have those fanbelts because (a) they have modest hp and (b) suspension movement is kept to a bare minimum by the low seat height. Ducati got to where they were changing the fanbelts on their cam drives every day in World Supers, so now they've switched to metal chains in the new Panigale 1200 twin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5950664143576637249.post-71300182145966828752012-08-27T17:30:39.743-05:002012-08-27T17:30:39.743-05:00Thanks for the backup, Eric. Regardless of how it ...Thanks for the backup, Eric. Regardless of how it came off, I'm not disrespecting any final drive system (except some aspects of belt systems), but I'm unconvinced that a "no maintenance" motorcycle is a good thing, even it were true. Drive shaft systems clearly aren't in your experience or mine. <br /><br />I suspect the previous owner killed the first chain on my WR and I replaced it at about 3,000 miles before looping Lake Superior last year. The chain slider was also wreaked. So far, 2,000 miles later, the new chain looks great and the slider is also in fine shape. <br /><br />I usually get about 12-15,000 miles from chain and sprockets on the V-Strom, but that includes a few thousand miles off-pavement. I have never ridden a shafty off-pavement and have no idea how they would hold up. T.W. Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078254371483458356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5950664143576637249.post-71424946726546128852012-08-27T17:16:03.553-05:002012-08-27T17:16:03.553-05:00I've never owned a belt drive bike, but I'...I've never owned a belt drive bike, but I've seen more than 1 rock get pushed into and poking through the belts from riding on gravel. Some brands have more guards around the belt than others. <br />I ride with a guy that owns a belt drive cruiser. His bike will squeak terribly after riding on gravel. The squeaking goes away after washing the grit/dust off the belt and pulleys.<br /><br />Some brands of motorcycles have shaft drives that are prone to self destruction.<br /><br />I currently own 3 bikes, 2 chain 1 shaft. One of the bikes, a ZX14 is on it's second chain I replaced it and the sprockets at 30,000 miles. A heavy rain and a "too tight" adjustment on my part made it die early. It would make odd cracking sounds. <br />A new set has cured that. I was a little leery of riveting my own chain, but 10,000 miles later, I'm not so worried.<br /><br />My other chain bike, a WR250X, doesn't have enough miles on it to worry about wear yet.<br /><br />The shaft drive bike, an FJR, has not been totally maintenance free. I change the gear oil every other engine oil change. I pulled the drive unit off and lubed the nearly dry spline shaft shortly after I bought it. It came nearly dry from the factory! <br /><br />No one should believe any final drive system, belt, chain or shaft is maintenance free.Erik Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08051303728879129181noreply@blogger.com